The Man Who Invented "The Most Important Single Traffic Safety Device"

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 01/03/2015 at 10:00 • Filed to: None

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Quick - what is the Most Important Single Traffic Safety Device? Many experts say it was invented by Edward Hines of Michigan, in 1911.

It seems hard to imagine that people drove on roads at one point which were not nicely marked for us. How would you know if the idiot in front of you was drunk unless there was a center line for him to ignore? Well, it wasn't possible to see that before 1911. That's the year Edward Hines, Wayne County Road Commissioner, came up with the idea to draw a line down the middle of the road as a safety feature.

As the later story went, he was inspired by seeing a leaky milk truck drive along, leaving a nice dotted line down the middle of the road. That fed Hines the idea of dividing the road into equal halves, so that cars could avoid hitting each other head on. And that line down the middle of the road !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! the most important single traffic safety device. And on a side note, this was not his only claim to fame. It was under his direction that the first mile of concrete roadway was built - !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! between Six and Seven Mile Roads.

The leaky milk truck story sounds apocryphal and probably is. In earlier versions of Hines's story, he said he witnessed a near head-on collision "on a bridge between a horse and buggy and an automobile," neither of which was a leaky milk wagon. The near-miss version was retold in The Milwaukee Journal , October 20, 1953. Hines saw the near-miss and thought a center line might have helped. He ordered his road commission to begin center striping all danger spots – curves and bridges were first – and the results were impressive. He then simply ordered the striping of all roads in Wayne County. When the rest of the state – and then the nation – saw the results of this, they began center lining their roads as well. For those unfamiliar, Wayne County is in southeast Michigan and encompasses Detroit.

There is a small dispute about the center line's inventor, although Hines does appear to be the man who deserves the credit. A historical marker in northern Michigan - hundreds of miles from Wayne County - titled "Highway Center Line Invented Here," tells the story of their local road commissioner, Kenneth Sawyer, and how he invented the center line when he painted a line on a nearby dangerous curve in 1917. For many years, Sawyer supporters argued that theirs was the first piece of road with a center line, even though no one argued it was painted before 1917.

When it became clear that 1911 preceded 1917 and not the other way around, Sawyerites began saying that Sawyer was the inventor of the first "rural" center line, as if that is somehow a meaningful distinction.

The drafters of the Sawyer marker language believed their portion to be the world's first without qualification. "Since that time, the center line painted stripe has been adopted worldwide to guide drivers to keep in their own lane." So, many people refer to the marker and pretend it makes the distinction - which it doesn't. For example, the Daily Mining Journal noted that the centerline "saw one of its first uses on a rural road in Marquette County." The italics are mine. The writer of that piece, in November, 2011, had to shoehorn rural into the piece because the article was about an honor being given to Hines, not Sawyer. A photo of the marker accompanies the article.

And, Sawyer's rural center line in 1917 was nowhere near a first, even if we split hairs on rural versus urban . Oregon, among others, had adopted center lines by 1917 as well. According to The Oregonian , February 26, 1958, center lines had been painted there as early as April, 1917, although their center lines had been yellow and not white. (The 1958 piece was actually about the color of the lines and not who was first, which lends the article even more credence in my opinion.) And there is one more obvious point: prior to 1917, major portions of Wayne County were rural. We do not know when the first rural roads within the county were center lined but it seems likely that one of them probably was striped before 1917 since Hines had begun striping the whole county in 1911.

Of course, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! the Sawyer "rural center line first" notion, without qualification, explanation or citation. The State of Michigan !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! the "first rural center line" but I suspect that is because they hate to call out the mistaken historical marker. Sawyer was a good guy and all but it is hard to take away something which has been said about him for all these years.

Just to cement Hines's claim: B.F. Goodrich decided to figure out who deserved the credit for the center line back in the 1930s. Goodrich concluded the honor belonged to Hines. The St. Petersburg Times called him the "Originator of Center Safety Stripe for Highways," and noted his recent recognition by the tire company. AAA even gave him a bronze plaque. And, his bronze plaque predated Sawyer's mistaken historical marker by a decade or two.

So, next time you are struggling to stay on your side of the center line, thank Edward Hines. Is the center line the the most important single traffic safety device of all time? A strong argument can be made for it. If not, what other contenders are there?

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we're not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn't act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Photo of Hines: Courtesy State of Michigan; Center Line photo: Courtesy of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 10:19

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Steve, you're coming dangerously close to committing acts of journalism.

SteveLehto > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/03/2015 at 10:21

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"I'm not a journalist, Jim. I'm, just a damn country doctor."

Oh wait. Is that a good thing?

Thanks!

Tohru > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 10:21

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Remember kids: The only thing separating you from a 40 ton semi going the other way is a stripe on the road.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 10:26

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I'm just sayin' the higher ups at Gawker might not bless your endeavors. I mean fact checking ? Sheesh.

Nolan Knight > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:07

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Great article. I actually live just off of Edward N Hines Drive in southeast Michigan. It does, in fact have a center line. It's a beautiful road, with expansive parks and gorgeous rest stops from the early 19th century. I highly recommend taking a drive down it if you're ever in the area.

SteveLehto > Nolan Knight 01/03/2015 at 11:10

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Yes, that drive is beautiful. I have also run it a couple of times. The Free Press Marathon organizers often do a 20 mile training run along Hines Drive a month or so before the actual race. A great way to see the scenery at a slower pace than driving it.

Thanks for the note.

Tom > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:21

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This picture of a Roman Road I found on Wikipedia clearly shows a center line. Therefore, the Romans invented the center line.

SteveLehto > Tom 01/03/2015 at 11:22

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And I notice the Romans rode their bicycles on the right. This is making me rethink everything I have ever believed to be true!

Tom > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:31

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They parked their bikes on the right. I think it is a stretch to conclude that they also rode them on the right.

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:33

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What are these line markings you speak of? My 'street' is still dirt(Australia). I just use all the road(sliding/drifting)and avoid milk wagons.

SteveLehto > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 11:36

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I can't speak to the history of road markings in Australia. But, I agree with you - I'm a little concerned about that milk wagon operator, not realizing he was losing his load. Probably drunk (but we'll never know since there was no center line at the time).

revarthurbelling > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:46

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Maybe this:

Although I can see the center line argument.

SteveLehto > revarthurbelling 01/03/2015 at 11:48

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It is funny to think about. Go back to the old days before they had Stop signs, center lines or any traffic control. Woo hoo! That had to be a blast to drive back then.

revarthurbelling > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:52

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And the double stripe! Gack, I don't know how many times I've been scared shitless by assholes trying to pass at the top of a hill!

$kaycog > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 11:55

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Problem being that the highway workers couldn't agree on the location of the center of the road.

revarthurbelling > revarthurbelling 01/03/2015 at 11:55

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Interestingly, I did just watch the Top Gear Season 15 (?) Christmas special, and the roads in Iraq did not have center lines/divider lines. I wonder how many places that is applicable?

Ragnarok1983 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:00

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If only I had such a vision as Hines did. Hines' Sight even.

I'm here all night folks! Enjoy the veal!

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:09

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I'm not sure of the history here to(too/two/2)(grammar don't know me). Living in a rural area is the best! Cops are busy with the city folk. Dirt roads are cool if you have the right vehicle(4x4 or AWD) traction control disabled -= fun.

jimz > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:09

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and he has a very nice park and boulevard named after him in Wayne County.

http://www.eyeonmichigan.com/guides/hinespa…

SteveLehto > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 12:11

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I feel the same way about snow and a RWD car. You just have to find a place where you can drift without sliding into something immovable, like a snow-covered parking block. Or a ditch. Those things can lurk under snow and ruin your afternoon.

SteveLehto > jimz 01/03/2015 at 12:12

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Yes, someone else mentioned that. I've run Hines Drive a few times preparing for the Free Press Marathon. They often do an organized 20 miler a month or so out. Beautiful to look at and a nice run as well.

GE90man > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:13

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story sounds like a selfish claim for fame ploy

Ragnarok1983 > Tom 01/03/2015 at 12:17

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Which explains why the Brits drive on the left: As a way of opposing the tyrannical rule of the Romans in Britain.

Here's an image of "Hadrian's Elevated Bikepath" from Roman rule of lower Britain.

Old-Busted-Hotness > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/03/2015 at 12:21

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YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE THE AMAZING STORY OF THIS MAN WHO SAVED YOUR LIFE BEFORE YOU WERE EVEN BORN!

LongbowMk2 > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/03/2015 at 12:24

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it sets a dangerous precedent.

Detroit 9000 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:28

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One of the greatest roads in Michigan, Hines Drive, is named after him. The road is packed with Ford employees every weekday morning going heading from the west suburbs of Detroit to Dearborn. The road follows the middle Rouge River, the same river that passes the Ford Rouge Plant.

stripertyper2002 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:30

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The everyday little things that you never think about. Yeah, center lines are so ubiquitous that when I find myself on a newly paved road prior to their application it's actually disconcerting. Particularly traveling in the left lane of a 4 lane with no center divider. My mind keeps telling me something's eerily wrong no matter how much I 'try' to assuage it.

SteveLehto > stripertyper2002 01/03/2015 at 12:31

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Just go a little faster. The feeling will pass . . .

LongbowMk2 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:31

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Low speeds would make it less interesting. Then again each driver was needing to adjust throttle, a/f ratio, timing, non synchronized gear boxes, oil and fuel pressure on the fly as well.

Pre WWI cars just seem impossibly complicated.

stripertyper2002 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:36

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Good solution. Applicable to many aspects of life I suppose.

SteveLehto > LongbowMk2 01/03/2015 at 12:37

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I had a ride in a White's steam car, circa 1908 or so. I watched the driver work the throttle (on the steering wheel) and the pedals and realized I would have crashed it within 30 seconds if I had tried it.

shop-teacher > Ragnarok1983 01/03/2015 at 12:43

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Should I also tip my waitress?

totalrunout > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:45

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Definitely enjoy your posts, Steve. This kind of history should be taught at the DOT offices in order to reinforce the magnitude of the impact such simple attention to detail has in regards to highway safety. I once called in to the County DOT office in NC about a 1/4 mile stretch of construction in the middle of a 3 to 2 lane merging area that went without painted lane marks for a week. They told me to call the state office, who the offered to give me the # of the construction company they contracted. I objected by stating, "Why would they listen to me? Is it not your job to enforce this!?"

the7thearlofgrey > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:47

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and

his son invented the giant vagina

SteveLehto > totalrunout 01/03/2015 at 12:48

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Thanks for the note. That is wild, but typical if you think about it - our efficient government at its finest.

Can you imagine how many accidents that probably caused?

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:48

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Snow? What is that? I'm kind of joking as it's very rare to have snow of the kind you have in parts of the US, we actually did get a good dump at Christmas (summer WTF?!) about 5 years back locally and it was fun but the next year most of the state was burning(Because in melbourne if you don't like the weather just wait a minute!) My best snow trip was in my MY 1986 MWB FJ73 FRP top LandCruiser, found an untouched snowscape, stopped and ate hotdogs next to a fire that my friend made, then went off and trashed some vigin snow tracks. Life is good in Australia...

SteveLehto > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 12:50

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Sounds like it! In MICH, we get snow several months a year and in the far north it can get quite deep. It can be fun to drive in but shoveling it (or moving it using other implements even) can be a pain.

jimz > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:51

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I usually take my bike there on saturdays when the close it off for cyclists/runners/etc.

Ragnarok1983 > shop-teacher 01/03/2015 at 12:52

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INDEED!

Volante3192 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:53

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"He then simply ordered the striping of all roads in Wayne County."

Just up and said, "Do this"? Executive overreach! Impeach! IMPEEEACH!!

The English Guy > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:54

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You should follow this up with the inventor of the cat's eye.

After realizing cars tracked tram lines with their headlights and accidents increased where they were pulled up, he set about inventing.

Making millions from his invention... He stayed in the same house but splurged big on... four TV sets, one for each freely available British channel. Now there's a man who knows how to live it up.

SteveLehto > Volante3192 01/03/2015 at 12:55

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There may have been some process involved but he was the head of the Road Commission. I suspect that carries some weight ("Don't you know who I am?! I'm the ROAD COMMISSIONER!")

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 12:58

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That blows my tiny brain, it seems like such a pain in the (solid axle) rear end! How do you live with all that frozen water for sooo many months of the year? Does it give you the shits?

anotherburner111122223333 > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 12:59

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There'd better not be any [expletive] snow there when I arrive in a few days...

anotherburner111122223333 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:00

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See also INDIA.

SteveLehto > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 13:01

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You get used to it. Been driving in it since I was 15 (learner's permit) and shoveling it since I was 5 or 6. It's always fun to see the first snow flakes of the year - "Look at the bright white, covering all the grey and brown of the Fall!" - and then it wears off around Christmas. By February, you want to find meteorologists and do unkind things to them.

anotherburner111122223333 > stripertyper2002 01/03/2015 at 13:02

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::cough::cough:: passing lane ::cough::cough::

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:13

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Yeah the first snow is cool(pun) I have small children right now and I'm thinking that I'll push them in the career path of being a meteorologist, there's not many jobs that pay you to be wrong every day?

SteveLehto > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 13:17

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Ever listen to my podcast? For some reason, I have quite a few listeners in Australia. In my latest, I gave a shout out to the good people of Bundoora who, according to my podcast hosting site, are the ones who listen the most (I kid you not). Sounds like a fun place.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The Compromiser > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:32

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I just read an article on painted lines on the road. The whole thing. I didn't skip any lines even....

Well done, sir. I look forward to your comprehensive article on turning lane etiquette.

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:34

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WTF? I'm a subscriber and like all your podcasts, the tow truck one stands out, loved that. I oppoerate(sic) a small business and run a CNC(USA built(fist in the air!)) and listen to podcasts alot(yours included) with my earmuffs(sorry but the sun is coming up and I haven't slept yet, 5:30am+beer) when running the machine. Too many brackets, I'm sorry

SteveLehto > The Compromiser 01/03/2015 at 13:34

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I was thinking about doing a piece about passing on the right. But no one deserves the kind of abuse that would draw.

Thanks.

SteveLehto > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 01/03/2015 at 13:35

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Cool! Glad to know I have listeners scattered about the globe.

I was just scrolling through the top cities (where listeners log in from) and saw Bundoora near the top of the list!

Apex Assassin > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:46

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So the world of motoring wasn't saved by a snarky Brit?

Tom > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:50

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Does a drivers license count as a safety device?

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 13:51

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Bundoora? Wow! This internet shit has shrunk the planet! It's in the same state as me but too close to civilisation for me, my closest neighbours are over a kilometer or 0.62137192 miles from my house and that's the way I like it! Don't have any issues with neighbours becuase we can't see each other(world peace solution)

* I may have become a recluse and I'm fine with that!

SteveLehto > Tom 01/03/2015 at 13:55

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Not sure those have made anyone safer. Look at the people they give them to!

Tohru > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 14:56

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From what I have been told, Australia got road markings in 1978, indoor plumbing in 1965, electricity in 1954, and the Internet in 2009.

Urambo Tauro > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 14:58

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Heck, when I'm shopping I imagine a line in the aisles! I walk on the right and "overtake" stopped or slow shoppers. And when I reach a "main" aisle, I yield to its traffic until clear.

I definitely take the line for granted. Thanks for the article. You know what they say about ASSumptions, but I've always believed that oncoming traffic staying on their side is an assumption that must be made. Surely this is the greatest traffic device.

Tohru > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 14:58

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Or just go to eastern Europe/Russia. Where they have all of those things, but they just ignore them.

SteveLehto > Urambo Tauro 01/03/2015 at 15:03

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I feel the same way. I hate people who come down the aisle on the wrong side or even when walkers don't stay to the side on the path I run on. I've had some jump to the left when they hear me coming. Who does that?!

SteveLehto > Tohru 01/03/2015 at 15:04

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Yes, Russian dash cams have proven that the center line is powerless to stop the mayhem.

KirkyV > revarthurbelling 01/03/2015 at 15:14

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Those are rather uncommon where I'm from.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 15:36

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I feel like the most important traffic safety device is the brakes maybe.

SteveLehto > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 01/03/2015 at 15:37

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I'm not sure if they consider a car part to be a "traffic" device or not. But yes, the brakes are quite helpful.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 15:44

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It helps with safety IN traffic.

Dy-no-mite Jay > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 16:03

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My house backs to Hines park, home of E. Hines drive, named for the very same man. This park, and road was constructed for flood control. It's nice to see home town stories here in jalopnik. Keep up the good work Steve!

AdverseMartyr > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 16:06

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I really enjoy your articles, and I know you are a lawyer so you know the importance of phrasing; therefore, I have a question for you: what was the reasoning for "Most Important Single Traffic Safety Device" instead of 'Single Most Important Traffic Safety Device'?

You phrased it that way a few times and I keep seeing it as wackbards. I think I am missing a phrasing syntax rule somewhere. I apologize if I am being a grammar nazi.

AdverseMartyr > AdverseMartyr 01/03/2015 at 16:08

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Does "Single" = standalone?

ranwhenparked > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 16:08

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It's always the simplest ideas that make the biggest impact. Most important traffic safety innovation - a painted line down the middle of the road; most important car safety feature - seat belt.

Whitesmoke > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 16:09

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Dang and I thought it was gonna be the "Don't Jerk and Drive" inventor. Fascinating read and since my wife is originally from Wayne county, she can hold her head a little higher now.

SteveLehto > AdverseMartyr 01/03/2015 at 16:22

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Ha! Thanks for noticing. I would have written it as you suggested as well. I felt so bad about it, I put it in quotes in the headline. That is the phrase I got from the state. Since I was quoting them, I left it as it was. If I had changed it, it would have been as if I was saying that this was the Single Most Important TO ME - and that is not something I wanted to state. I was saying it as "Here is what someone else thinks . . . " versus "Here is what I think."

Yes, lawyers can be quite fastidious about the words and wordings of things. Thanks for the note.

AdverseMartyr > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 16:36

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I saw the quotes, and just wasn't sure since you didn't use the quotes in the article text. The state must be using an old turn of phrase.

Thank you for answering my question and curiosity.

SteveLehto > AdverseMartyr 01/03/2015 at 16:38

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You know, I thought I HAD used the quotes in the body of the piece. Shows what happens when you over-edit.

AdverseMartyr > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 16:49

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Or, I found the one in your article that you missed the quotes on when I was fact checking myself before commenting. Regardless, I enjoy your writing. Keep 'em coming.

Daniel Fleck > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 17:28

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I'd argue that brakes are the most important traffic safety device...

Also, while Edward Hines might take credit for the "first mile of concrete road ever built" that's only because he was the first to get it up to a mile. George Bartholomew invented the first concrete paved road and it's located in Bellfontaine, OH.

gm0n3y > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 01/03/2015 at 17:32

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Headlights are pretty great too. Can't imagine driving at night without them.

SteveLehto > Daniel Fleck 01/03/2015 at 17:33

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I am not sure if brakes are considered a traffic device so much as an automobile part. (i.e. something outside the car to help the drivers negotiate the roads versus something within the car itself).

But the paved thing I was unaware of. I will look it up.

Thanks for the note.

special_k_side > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 17:35

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Nice write up! Now if the road planners in the Lower Mainland of BC, can actually: A: Use some type of reflective paint on the road lines B: actually use cats eyes on the lines, or C: Not use such reflective tar! My lord, trying to see road lines here in the rain, dark, with over bright over head lights is impossible!

special_k_side > Ragnarok1983 01/03/2015 at 17:41

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It is a wall, smarty pants, it was put there to keep the Picts out. As in, Reliant Robins hitting them after their owners come out of the pubs, loaded to smuggle Haggis to unsuspecting people. :) If I could only ride it though :)

straightsix > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 17:50

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Excellent piece, Steve. My father was an Operations Research expert, basically a math genius who could solve very complex, dynamic problems. In the late 1970's his company (consisting essentially of him) was hired by IBM to time the traffic lights (to develop new algorithms to time the traffic lights) of New York City. The patterns resulted in stunning - drastic and immediate - improvements in safety, efficiency, smog, fuel consumption, commute times, traffic deaths, accidents etc., etc., throughout the boroughs and into CT and NJ. To this day, when I am in a car in New York and the lights go green at "precisely the right time," I glow with pride and reverence for... My Dad.

SteveLehto > straightsix 01/03/2015 at 17:52

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Very cool. I can still tell you which lights were timed "wrong" in the neighborhood in which I learned to drive. I've always wondered if they really were "wrong" or if there was some reason for it.

Thanks for the note.

The Compromiser > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 19:21

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I would read it. You communicatewell. I also read random history books for fun. Anything from Fitzgibbon and the war of American aggression (1812) to a memoir on Groucho Marx. I'm kinda wierd. ..

thanks for the note. ;)

Kinja'd Again > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 19:47

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Holy shit, fact checking.

I think I love you.

SteveLehto > Kinja'd Again 01/03/2015 at 19:54

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What can I tell you? I'm paranoid that the facts I get wrong will inspire the trolls to attack.

Thanks for the note!

Sean > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 19:56

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If this footage of somewhat chaotic and reckless traffic in SF is anything to go by, then yes the road lines were a good idea. It would appear that "stay right" was only a suggestion to most people back in the early 1900's.

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > The Compromiser 01/03/2015 at 20:08

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The war of American Aggression in 1812!?!

The Compromiser > Just Cars for Joe Bryant 01/03/2015 at 20:11

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I said American, not Northern. When you live in Canada you can refer to the time the US tried to take over that way.

Ragnarok1983 > special_k_side 01/03/2015 at 20:14

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Well I mean, you could ride it. Unfortunately the amount of abuse it's seen from 1600+ years of Reliant Robin crashes and toxic haggis spills has really taken a toll. —- Well that and the lack of upkeep since the demise of the Roman Empire.

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > The Compromiser 01/03/2015 at 20:15

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Oh that was because you were more or less fully owned by the British at the time, and we were dealing with the War of British Aggression in 1812 at that time, and some members of Congress got a little overzealous.

The Compromiser > Just Cars for Joe Bryant 01/03/2015 at 21:05

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The Brits were fighting a little thing called the Napoleonic War. The aggression was a little upstart Backing the wrong side. They let you keep your lands. Manifest Destiny wasn't a thing back then. Besides, in 1812 you would've been Canadian ;).

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 21:11

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Oh counselor, have you laid the proper foundation to show that 1911 is, in fact, prior to 1917? While we are all sure you are as pure as the driven snow, I do expect at least a showing of how you came to such a conclusion.

Sorry, contrary to the belief that all lawyers do is sit about and discuss new ways to create a billable moment for "reading Jalopnik" I'm in the midst of preparing for my 2nd or 3rd most ridiculous case I've ever taken... on a Saturday night, while drinking fluids guaranteed to make my flu worse.... thus, I don't believe anything you simply assert.

Prophet of hoon > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/03/2015 at 21:12

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His mistake is not concluding brown, station wagon, manual Miata... he's got no chance with those who think walking from work to home is reasonable.

SteveLehto > Prophet of hoon 01/03/2015 at 21:42

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I'm sure you know I could find an expert who would opine on whether we really know the order of 1911 or 1917. A mathematician? A numerologist? Pay them enough and they will say anything.

Good luck on the prep.

Glen48 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 22:21

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Wonder if the Romans had to convert their bike to RH or LH drive??

Glen48 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 22:22

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In Australia in most states the markings are white that way you can't see them in wet weather no one has the brains to use yellow.

theshinobi01 > SteveLehto 01/03/2015 at 23:33

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Yeah but in Japan, touge drivers tend to ignore these. :)

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 01/04/2015 at 00:21

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I've found mostly-retired medical doctors will tell you whatever you want to hear.

I think I'm getting cynical...

Shoop > The English Guy 01/04/2015 at 01:02

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and called full of beer to last a lifetime right? At least that's what I remember reading.

Nauraushaun > Glen48 01/04/2015 at 02:21

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Oh man. Never thought about that. You're right. I'm Australian, and it's not uncommon for light hitting a wet road to make the lines barely visible.